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讨论新闻主题﹕Wi-Fi Direct与蓝牙3.0竞争难免 USB也遭殃
Wi-Fi联盟(Wi-Fi Alliance)近日宣布重大技术升级消息,最新标准Wi-Fi Direct即将完成,此消息一出已经引起全球电子产业高度重视。 以目前的讯息来看,Wi-Fi Direct技术可让PC、NB、数字相机和手机等电子终端装置,不必透过目前必须的无线网络平台才能进行联机的方式,藉由Wi-Fi Direct技术可自动扫描附近的无线网络区域、以及所有具备Wi-Fi功能的终端装置,将装置之间的链接距离扩大至100公尺,直接透过Wi-Fi便可点对点(P2P)相互链接,并支持标准的数据传输速率...

goverz
(不在在线)
nbsp;
来自: 台北市
文章: 4

发 表 于: 2009.10.20 08:53:08 AM
文章主题: Wi-Fi Direct與藍牙3.0競爭難免 USB也遭殃
你真的知道WiFi Direct跟BT3.0的差異在哪裡嗎?XD
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Jalen Chung
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nbsp;
来自: 台湾
文章: 157

发 表 于: 2009.10.20 09:39:10 AM
文章主题: Re: Wi-Fi Direct與藍牙3.0競爭難免 USB也遭殃

所以我們很期待啊,雙方能夠在各自技術上提出讓市場與消費者青睞與接受的優勢

Wi Fi-Direct還沒完成吧,所以大家都很好奇其詳細內容大要會是怎樣

所以大大是相關標準規格專業知情人士嗎

請大大不吝賜教撥冗點撥一下我們

讓我們讀者與會員更深入清楚地瞭解此兩種技術的輪廓樣貌

也請大大賜教分析對於此兩種技術在未來市場趨勢的看法

感恩

 

 

 

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goverz
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nbsp;
来自: 台北市
文章: 4

发 表 于: 2009.10.20 09:52:01 AM
文章主题: Wi-Fi Direct與藍牙3.0競爭難免 USB也遭殃
BT3.0嚴格說起來是BT3.0+HS 這個HS(High Speed)就是指它多加了一個高速實體層 這個實體層其實就是WiFi的實體層(MAC+PHY) 對於傳統的耳機或是鍵盤應用,BT3.0跟BT2.1或以下其實沒有不同,它還是用原本BT的實體層所以一樣省電 但如果是跑HS時,它的速度就跟WiFi是一樣的,因為它的實體層根本就是WiFi 但差異是在WiFi本身一直以來就是設計來連網路用的,所有的應用都是另外由HOST端自己去設計應用程式,也沒有標準化 但是BT的話一直都是以點對點的應用在設計的,所以它有一堆profile可以做一堆你想得到的點對點應用,像是耳機,HID裝置,FTP,電話簿sync.....etc 這些都是標準化的而且已經被廣泛應用的 所以WiFi要在點對點的應用上去取代BT,實在是很不可思議的事情,如果要那樣的話,可能所有有BT的耳機,手機,HID裝置都要拿去丟掉 更何況BT3.0+HS本來就用了WiFi的實體層,在速度上根本就是一樣的東西 WiFi Direct詳細內容還是要WiFi聯盟做更進一步的說明,但據我所知,光是雙向的點對點通信,WiFi Direct就做不到了,這樣子要怎麼打得過BT3.0呢?:P
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Jalen Chung
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nbsp;
来自: 台湾
文章: 157

发 表 于: 2009.10.20 10:51:06 AM
文章主题: Re: Wi-Fi Direct與藍牙3.0競爭難免 USB也遭殃

 

大大的反應好迅速好快,大大是專業人士啦!!!

我所瞭解的是,藍牙3.0高速(HS)版本是以無線區域網絡IEEE 802.11標準為基礎,設計802.11的協定轉換層(Protocol Adaptation LayerPAL),在10公尺範圍內能將資料傳輸速度提昇到24Mbps,強調可無線同步傳輸包括多媒體影像、視訊和音訊等大型檔案。

此外藍牙3.0高速版本包括多項重要更新,像是AMPGeneric Alternate MAC/PHY)技術、通用測試方法(Generic Test Methodology)、單向無線傳輸資料(Unicast Connectionless Data)等。

值得注意的是,藍牙3.0藉由通訊切換至AMP機制傳輸高容量資料,一般傳輸則利用藍牙功能,來改善Host端傳輸效能。AMP是一種radio切換管理設計,經過multi-radio selection/routing媒介來管理traffic,因此藍牙3.0可以over 802.11,也可以 over UWB,不一定都是Wi-Fi based。而PAL協定轉換層的設計則是強化藍牙3.0可以藉由802.11 b/g/aMAC/PHY去達到高速傳輸的目的。所以藍牙3.0看資料傳輸容量調整最佳化的傳輸方式,AMPPAL這兩個設計是其重點。至於在省電部分,沒錯,好像可以省4倍。

至於Wi-Fi點對點通訊部分,我記得Atheros在今年Computex期間就有Demo相關技術樣品,他們叫做Direct Connect Peer-to Peer WLAN,可不藉由路由器、Access Point或是Internet,單一Wi-Fi裝置便可點對點傳輸其他8Wi-Fi裝置。好像NEC的智慧型手機N-06A在今年5月中旬就已經採用相關技術。所以廠商研發Wi-Fi直接傳輸技術應該是沒有問題的,現在是看Wi-Fi聯盟怎麼把這項技術規格標準化。

就因為藍牙3.0Wi-Fi Direct都使用Wi-Fi協定轉換層或Wi-Fi強化高速傳輸,在功能上不可諱言地具有重疊性,這也是為什麼作WLAN晶片設計的廠商,會以自身在WLAN技術的優勢為基礎,進一步地表達自己在藍牙3.0也會具備在優勢上的加乘效果。況且藍牙3.0也將PC和家庭聯網等領域視為主要應用,與Wi-Fi同樣強調可支援多媒體影像、視訊等資料傳輸,在應用上兩者也應有相當的重疊與競爭關係。

就以上數點作為補充與回應,另外,大大我們別浪費時間,可以跟您交個朋友嗎?若您有進一步資訊和專業內容願意跟我們分享,我們是否有這個機會在這裡誠摯地邀請您投稿,我們應可刊登於零組件雜誌或是CTimes網站上,讓讀者和會員分享這方面的專業訊息內容,若您有興趣的話,請您與我們聯絡:news@hope.com.tw

非常感謝您迅速又專業的回覆

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Korbin Lan
論壇會員(在線上)
nbsp;
来自: 台北市
文章: 213

发 表 于: 2009.10.20 11:01:03 AM
文章主题: Re: Wi-Fi Direct與藍牙3.0競爭難免 USB也遭殃

這麼說起來Wi-Fi Direct在P2P的應用上將很難與BT相抗衡...
但有趣的是Wi-Fi Direct的的確確就是要競爭這塊市場,如果沒有著力點,他們何苦要做這件事,這讓我很好奇...

現在Wi-Fi Direct的正式規範仍未推出,它的頻寬...傳輸距離...功耗等等都還是未知數...而這些也都是重點所在...
雖然說,市場普遍認為Wi-Fi Direct較具優勢,但BT在消費者端的知名度和接受度最高,它在可攜式裝置上的影響力短期間內應該是很難被撼動...

不過,這還是要看到Wi-Fi Direct的正式規範之後才能確定...

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goverz
(不在在线)
nbsp;
来自: 台北市
文章: 4

发 表 于: 2009.10.20 11:04:59 AM
文章主题: Wi-Fi Direct與藍牙3.0競爭難免 USB也遭殃
我只是個小角色,上來聊聊就好XD 你這裡寫的很好,BT3.0就是這麼回事 只是說UWB幾乎是已經出局了,所以現在的HS就是WiFi 我所認知的WiFi Direct是無法做雙向通信的 不過像是BT原本的OBEX push,A2DP,Video streaming 這些都是單向的通信,所以WiFi Direct也做得到 可是如果像是BT原本的FTP這種需要雙向通信的 WiFi Direct可能就沒有辦法了
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Jalen Chung
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nbsp;
来自: 台湾
文章: 157

发 表 于: 2009.10.20 11:15:09 AM
文章主题: Re: Wi-Fi Direct與藍牙3.0競爭難免 USB也遭殃

大大太客氣了,大大有空還是多來我們這邊澆花灌水

恩,所以現在關鍵是Wi-Fi Direct有沒有雙向通訊傳輸的功能,如果有,事情就真的大條了,這點我不知道Wi-Fi晶片設計廠商有沒有highlight這點,所以,我們就等Wi-Fi 聯盟來回答我們了

感謝大大的細心指教

大大要不要再考慮一下,有興趣的話再跟我們聯絡啦

 

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Antares
(不在在线)
nbsp;
来自: 新竹縣市
文章: 1

发 表 于: 2009.10.30 11:22:54 AM
文章主题: Re: Wi-Fi Direct與藍牙3.0競爭難免 USB也遭殃
Wi-Fi Alliance 上的FAQ, 另外小弟與WFA的人問過"WiFi Direct是無法做雙向通信的" 是不對的
----------------------

Frequently Asked Questions

What exactly is Wi-Fi CERTIFIED Wi-Fi Direct?

Wi-Fi CERTIFIED Wi-Fi Direct is an upcoming program from the Wi-Fi Alliance that defines a new way for Wi-Fi devices to work together. Wi-Fi devices will be able to make direct connections to one another quickly and conveniently to do things like print, sync, and share content even when an access point or router is unavailable. Wi-Fi Direct connections will work at typical Wi-Fi speeds and range, protected by WPA2® security protocols and including WMM® Quality of Service mechanisms. Only Wi-Fi Alliance member companies will be able to offer Wi-Fi CERTIFIED Wi-Fi Direct capabilities on their products.

Is Wi-Fi Direct based on the IEEE 802.11s (Mesh) or 802.11z (Direct Link Setup) standards?
No. The specification for Wi-Fi Direct was developed within the Wi-Fi Alliance by member companies. It operates on 802.11 devices but is not linked to any specific IEEE 802.11 amendment. When will Wi-Fi Direct devices be available? We expect Wi-Fi Alliance member companies to begin designing and testing Wi-Fi Direct products in early 2010, and to begin certifying products in mid-2010.

Will Wi-Fi Direct interoperate with my other Wi-Fi devices?
Yes. A Wi-Fi CERTIFIED Wi-Fi Direct device will be able to make device-to-device connections with existing 802.11 a/g/n Wi-Fi CERTIFIED gear. Will legacy devices be upgradeable to support Wi-Fi Direct? Wi-Fi Direct does not require new hardware to operate, so some vendors may offer software upgrades. However, it’s important to note that interoperability between Wi-Fi Direct devices and legacy devices is a key element of the specification, so even non-upgraded devices can join a Wi-Fi Direct network.

What will Wi-Fi Direct performance be like?
Wi-Fi CERTIFIED Wi-Fi Direct devices support the same performance profiles of regular Wi-Fi devices. That means data rates that can exceed 250 Mbps and whole-home coverage in the case of Wi-Fi CERTIFIED n devices. For devices based on 802.11 a or g, data rates will be about 54 Mbps and a coverage range of about 100 meters.

How many devices can connect?
A Wi-Fi Direct network can be one-to-one, or one-to-many. The number of devices in a Wi-Fi Direct network is expected to be smaller than the number supported by traditional standalone access points intended for consumer use.

Can a device simultaneously connect to a regular Wi-Fi network and a Wi-Fi Direct network at the same time?
All Wi-Fi Direct devices will allow the user to connect to an infrastructure or a Wi-Fi Direct network. Some Wi-Fi Direct devices will support connections to both an infrastructure network and Wi-Fi Direct network at the same time (e.g. a laptop may support an infrastructure connection while also belonging to a Wi-Fi Direct network).

Can a Wi-Fi Direct network cross connect to an infrastructure network for internet connectivity?
Yes. A single device in a Wi-Fi Direct network may share internet connectivity with other devices in the Wi-Fi Direct network by creating simultaneous infrastructure and Wi-Fi Direct connections. The Wi-Fi Direct network operates in a security domain separate from the infrastructure network even when cross connected.

Will this replace my access point or router?
No. Wi-Fi Direct is intended to offer a quick and convenient way to connect devices to each other. An access point or router will still be the way that Wi-Fi devices connect to the internet. Wi-Fi Direct can provide a cross connection to an internet connection supplied by a router but a Wi-Fi Direct network is not a substitute for a router, which has additional functionality optimized for a sustained internet connection.

Does Wi-Fi Direct work on both frequency bands?
Yes, Wi-Fi Direct can operate in both 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz. Devices operating in the 2.4 GHz frequency band only and devices operating in both the 2.4GHz and 5 GHz frequency bands can be certified for Wi-Fi Direct. How does Wi-Fi Direct work? Wi-Fi Direct connects devices using an approach similar to the traditional AP-to-client connection used in Wi-Fi CERTIFIED infrastructure networks. One Wi-Fi Direct device will provide the connection to other participants in a Wi-Fi Direct network in lieu of an AP. Wi-Fi Direct does not require special hardware compared to traditional Wi-Fi AP devices.

Which Wi-Fi Direct device will create and manage the connection?
Devices will conduct a negotiation to determine which device is most appropriate. This may be determined by considering a number of factors including but not limited to power management, number of connections supported, richness of user interface and services being offered. The Wi-Fi Direct device that offers the connection manages the creation, admission to, presence and termination of that Wi-Fi Direct network.

Can all devices start a Wi-Fi Direct network?
All Wi-Fi Direct devices can start a Wi-Fi Direct network, but it’s most likely that devices with more computing power (laptops, handsets, gaming devices) will more frequently manage the network than those with less power (digital cameras, printers, etc.).

How will security work for Wi-Fi Direct?
Wi-Fi Direct networks operate in a security domain that is independent from any infrastructure network. This means that they have protection of WPA2, but are managed separately from the security system in the AP-based network (home, enterprise, hotspot). This means both the Wi-Fi Direct and the infrastructure networks can be protected, but users don’t need credentials for the infrastructure network to connect to the Wi-Fi Direct network.

Does Wi-Fi Direct work in enterprise environments?
Yes. The specification was written to be enterprise-friendly and incorporates some important management features.
Wi-Fi Direct devices will be identifiable as Wi-Fi Direct devices to infrastructure access points. APs may also be able to turn off Wi-Fi Direct devices and/or configure their parameters including channel. Wi-Fi Direct will be an important technology for enterprise environments, enabling applications such as file transfer, printing, and display without requiring access to the WLAN. We also expect that Wi-Fi Direct will be used in enterprises to temporarily connect mobile data terminals and other portable devices for short-term tasks such as data transfer.

How is Wi-Fi Direct different from ad-hoc mode?
Wi-Fi Direct will offer discovery as a compelling feature that will make it easy to enable applications. Wi-Fi Direct incorporates several important innovations in Wi-Fi technology, such as higher data rates, enterprise manageability, WMM® Quality of Service mechanisms, and power management protocols to peer-to-peer connectivity.

What about power management protocols? Is Wi-Fi Direct a power hog?
Most Wi-Fi Direct devices will be power-sensitive, and in many cases, battery-powered. Wi-Fi Direct devices can support WMM® Power Save,and the Wi-Fi Direct specification also defines new power saving mechanisms.

How will service discovery work?
Like all Wi-Fi technologies, Wi-Fi Direct creates IP-based networks between the devices, allowing existing service discovery methods to work just as they do over a wireless LAN today--including Bonjour and UPnP. Wi-Fi Direct defines a new pre-association discovery method, giving Wi-Fi Direct devices the ability to discover devices and limited information about device services prior to association (and before having an IP address). Pre-association discovery improves the user experience - users will know whether a desired


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Korbin Lan
論壇會員(在線上)
nbsp;
来自: 台北市
文章: 213

发 表 于: 2009.10.30 11:44:56 AM
文章主题: Re : Re: Wi-Fi Direct與藍牙3.0競爭難免 USB也遭殃
Antares 提到:
Wi-Fi Alliance 上的FAQ, 另外小弟與WFA的人問過"WiFi Direct是無法做雙向通信的" 是不對的
----------------------

Frequently Asked Questions

What exactly is Wi-Fi CERTIFIED Wi-Fi Direct?
Wi-Fi CERTIFIED Wi-Fi Direct is an upcoming program from the Wi-Fi Alliance that defines a new way for Wi-Fi devices to work together. Wi-Fi devices will be able to make direct connections to one another quickly and conveniently to do things like print, sync, and share content even when an access point or router is unavailable. Wi-Fi Direct connections will work at typical Wi-Fi speeds and range, protected by WPA2® security protocols and including WMM® Quality of Service mechanisms. Only Wi-Fi Alliance member companies will be able to offer Wi-Fi CERTIFIED Wi-Fi Direct capabilities on their products.

Is Wi-Fi Direct based on the IEEE 802.11s (Mesh) or 802.11z (Direct Link Setup) standards?
No. The specification for Wi-Fi Direct was developed within the Wi-Fi Alliance by member companies. It operates on 802.11 devices but is not linked to any specific IEEE 802.11 amendment. When will Wi-Fi Direct devices be available? We expect Wi-Fi Alliance member companies to begin designing and testing Wi-Fi Direct products in early 2010, and to begin certifying products in mid-2010.

Will Wi-Fi Direct interoperate with my other Wi-Fi devices?
Yes. A Wi-Fi CERTIFIED Wi-Fi Direct device will be able to make device-to-device connections with existing 802.11 a/g/n Wi-Fi CERTIFIED gear. Will legacy devices be upgradeable to support Wi-Fi Direct? Wi-Fi Direct does not require new hardware to operate, so some vendors may offer software upgrades. However, it’s important to note that interoperability between Wi-Fi Direct devices and legacy devices is a key element of the specification, so even non-upgraded devices can join a Wi-Fi Direct network.

What will Wi-Fi Direct performance be like?
Wi-Fi CERTIFIED Wi-Fi Direct devices support the same performance profiles of regular Wi-Fi devices. That means data rates that can exceed 250 Mbps and whole-home coverage in the case of Wi-Fi CERTIFIED n devices. For devices based on 802.11 a or g, data rates will be about 54 Mbps and a coverage range of about 100 meters.

How many devices can connect?
A Wi-Fi Direct network can be one-to-one, or one-to-many. The number of devices in a Wi-Fi Direct network is expected to be smaller than the number supported by traditional standalone access points intended for consumer use.

Can a device simultaneously connect to a regular Wi-Fi network and a Wi-Fi Direct network at the same time?
All Wi-Fi Direct devices will allow the user to connect to an infrastructure or a Wi-Fi Direct network. Some Wi-Fi Direct devices will support connections to both an infrastructure network and Wi-Fi Direct network at the same time (e.g. a laptop may support an infrastructure connection while also belonging to a Wi-Fi Direct network).

Can a Wi-Fi Direct network cross connect to an infrastructure network for internet connectivity?
Yes. A single device in a Wi-Fi Direct network may share internet connectivity with other devices in the Wi-Fi Direct network by creating simultaneous infrastructure and Wi-Fi Direct connections. The Wi-Fi Direct network operates in a security domain separate from the infrastructure network even when cross connected.

Will this replace my access point or router?
No. Wi-Fi Direct is intended to offer a quick and convenient way to connect devices to each other. An access point or router will still be the way that Wi-Fi devices connect to the internet. Wi-Fi Direct can provide a cross connection to an internet connection supplied by a router but a Wi-Fi Direct network is not a substitute for a router, which has additional functionality optimized for a sustained internet connection.

Does Wi-Fi Direct work on both frequency bands?
Yes, Wi-Fi Direct can operate in both 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz. Devices operating in the 2.4 GHz frequency band only and devices operating in both the 2.4GHz and 5 GHz frequency bands can be certified for Wi-Fi Direct. How does Wi-Fi Direct work? Wi-Fi Direct connects devices using an approach similar to the traditional AP-to-client connection used in Wi-Fi CERTIFIED infrastructure networks. One Wi-Fi Direct device will provide the connection to other participants in a Wi-Fi Direct network in lieu of an AP. Wi-Fi Direct does not require special hardware compared to traditional Wi-Fi AP devices.

Which Wi-Fi Direct device will create and manage the connection?
Devices will conduct a negotiation to determine which device is most appropriate. This may be determined by considering a number of factors including but not limited to power management, number of connections supported, richness of user interface and services being offered. The Wi-Fi Direct device that offers the connection manages the creation, admission to, presence and termination of that Wi-Fi Direct network.

Can all devices start a Wi-Fi Direct network?
All Wi-Fi Direct devices can start a Wi-Fi Direct network, but it’s most likely that devices with more computing power (laptops, handsets, gaming devices) will more frequently manage the network than those with less power (digital cameras, printers, etc.).

How will security work for Wi-Fi Direct?
Wi-Fi Direct networks operate in a security domain that is independent from any infrastructure network. This means that they have protection of WPA2, but are managed separately from the security system in the AP-based network (home, enterprise, hotspot). This means both the Wi-Fi Direct and the infrastructure networks can be protected, but users don’t need credentials for the infrastructure network to connect to the Wi-Fi Direct network.

Does Wi-Fi Direct work in enterprise environments?
Yes. The specification was written to be enterprise-friendly and incorporates some important management features.
Wi-Fi Direct devices will be identifiable as Wi-Fi Direct devices to infrastructure access points. APs may also be able to turn off Wi-Fi Direct devices and/or configure their parameters including channel. Wi-Fi Direct will be an important technology for enterprise environments, enabling applications such as file transfer, printing, and display without requiring access to the WLAN. We also expect that Wi-Fi Direct will be used in enterprises to temporarily connect mobile data terminals and other portable devices for short-term tasks such as data transfer.


How is Wi-Fi Direct different from ad-hoc mode?
Wi-Fi Direct will offer discovery as a compelling feature that will make it easy to enable applications. Wi-Fi Direct incorporates several important innovations in Wi-Fi technology, such as higher data rates, enterprise manageability, WMM® Quality of Service mechanisms, and power management protocols to peer-to-peer connectivity.

What about power management protocols? Is Wi-Fi Direct a power hog?
Most Wi-Fi Direct devices will be power-sensitive, and in many cases, battery-powered. Wi-Fi Direct devices can support WMM® Power Save,and the Wi-Fi Direct specification also defines new power saving mechanisms.

How will service discovery work?
Like all Wi-Fi technologies, Wi-Fi Direct creates IP-based networks between the devices, allowing existing service discovery methods to work just as they do over a wireless LAN today--including Bonjour and UPnP. Wi-Fi Direct defines a new pre-association discovery method, giving Wi-Fi Direct devices the ability to discover devices and limited information about device services prior to association (and before having an IP address). Pre-association discovery improves the user experience - users will know whether a desired



感謝提供如此好的資料...(我擅自把它弄得好閱讀些...)
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Jalen Chung
(不在在线)
nbsp;
来自: 台湾
文章: 157

发 表 于: 2009.10.30 02:05:42 PM
文章主题: Re: Wi-Fi Direct與藍牙3.0競爭難免 USB也遭殃

對於Wi-Fi Direct技術與高速藍牙3.0Bluetooth 3.0High Speed)的比較,趁著這次Wi-Fi聯盟執行董事來台,我請教過Edgar Figueroa。他是語帶保留啦,沒有對這兩者之間做出任何評論。我繼續請問他Wi-Fi Direct技術在雙向通訊是否成熟、能否達到與高速藍牙3.0同樣的效果時,他的表情是有點不以為然,他說他並不知道藍牙3.0的內容,但是他很清楚地告訴我,Wi-Fi Direct直接互通傳輸已經成熟並準備就緒,雙向通訊並不會是問題。

 

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Jalen Chung
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来自: 台湾
文章: 157

发 表 于: 2009.10.30 02:10:28 PM
文章主题: Re: Wi-Fi Direct與藍牙3.0競爭難免 USB也遭殃

另外,非常感謝Antares的專業回饋,感恩

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